Depression Management Hints and Tips

If you're struggling with depression, you can expect a great discussion – from two people who have been there and understand what you are going through. In the end, you will know that you are not alone.

(Transcript available below)

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About the not crazy podcast hosts

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and public speaker living with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Insanity is an asshole and other observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast Not Crazy. She is the recipient of the National Alliance on Mental Illness' Above and Beyond award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has partnered with Gabe for over a decade to advocate mental health. She lives in Columbus, Ohio with her husband. enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, chooses the best and sends the other 11 back.

Computer generated transcript for "Depression Tips” episode

Editor's note:: Please note that this transcript was computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammatical errors. Many thanks.

Lisa: Y.You're listening to Not Crazy, a Psych Central podcast hosted by my ex-husband with bipolar disorder. Together we created the Mental Health Podcast for People Who Hate Mental Health Podcasts.

Gift: Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Not Crazy podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and I am your host. But with me, as always, is the great Lisa Kiner.

Lisa: Oh thank you Gabe. And today's quote comes from Atticus: Depression is color-blind and constantly tells how colorful the world is.

Gift: That speaks to me in a way that I just can't explain

Lisa: I know it's great, right?

Gift: Correct?

Lisa: I really like it.

Gift: I think people think they understand depression as much as people think they understand color blindness. Correct? Depression is the lack of happiness. Color blindness is the lack of color. But.

Lisa: Color blindness actually doesn't work that way.

Gift: Well, do you see what I mean?

Lisa: Right, right, right, the analogy is even better than we thought. Oh boom. Perplexed.

Gift: Exactly, the average person is like, oh, you see the world in black and white, but that's not what actually happens. Just like depression, this absence of happiness is not. It is a painful feeling. It's a weighted feeling. It is pulled into a dark hole. It's loneliness, it's emptiness. It's flat, it's awful. It feels different from person to person, just as color blindness appears different from person to person and everyone wanders around like I know what color blindness is. It's like the whole world is a black and white TV. There. I did it. Problem solved.

Lisa: They're amazingly good at analogy.

Gift: I know it's like my job. This makes the person who is color blind think, wow, you don't understand me at all. But what is worse, you are sure that you are and you will not listen to me explain that you do not understand. I think this is how people with depression feel. Not only do they not understand you, they are 100% positive, they understand you and are unwilling to listen to anything we have to say to convince them otherwise, which of course only deepens that hole. It deepens that loneliness and frustration and, frankly, despair.

Lisa: Yeah, that makes it even sadder.

Gift: Today we're going to talk about dealing with depression and maybe some helpful pointers, because in all honesty, I just think that we can only get tips on how to deal with depression from other people who have had and are dealing with depression. Congratulations everyone, your depressed co-hosts from Not Crazy are here to save the day. Right, Lisa?

Lisa: Absolutely.

Gift: Wow, just the most depressing.

Lisa: I know

Gift: Absolutely always

Lisa: We are sorry. Well, because I have some

Gift: Just me, your energy level is trash.

Lisa: Ok stop it, I want to say something. I would like to respond to a point that you made earlier and I am going to figure out how to deal with it. You know, I once had a friend who said that.

Gift: You know you don't have to work on it, you can just keep thinking about how I can make a sound better. I think the audience knows we're dipshits now. I don't think we are fooling anyone with our creative changes. you

Lisa: You don't help

Gift: You know we suck. Explain your point of view.

Lisa: They don't help me get into the right zone to earn points.

Gift: You don't have to be in a zone. The point is the point is the point. Your feelings

Lisa: OK so

Gift: Are irrelevant to facts.

Lisa: I once said to someone: I feel like people who don't have insanity cannot understand insanity, and I was talking about doctors specifically. I feel like my doctor who doesn't have a mental illness is not getting it. And she said, well, but isn't that the truth about everyone? I mean what if you had diabetes? Would a person who did not have diabetes understand that? And. On the one hand, I don't have diabetes, but yes, I have a feeling they would. I feel like it's not the same. And I do not know why. I feel like mental illness is different from other things. I feel like I understand all of these other diseases, diabetes, a broken leg that I don't have. But I feel like I understand. But do I do the same as other people with mental illnesses? I dont know.

Gift: There's an element of it, right, we're all arrogant about things

Lisa: Correct,

Gift: That affects other people.

Lisa: That's the word I'm looking for, arrogance, is that just my own arrogance? I dont know.

Gift: Something right? I think it all depends on how much we scratch beneath the surface, right? Think parenting, you know how perfect anyone who has no children is

Lisa: Right, my kids would be perfect.

Gift: I will choose my sister because before my sister had kids, she just ran around judging all parents. My child will never have a tantrum in a parking lot. My child will never do that. My child will never eat this. My child will never see that. My child won't have this problem. My child will never talk to me again. Yes. I love my niece. And what I love most about her is that she proves my sister wrong every day.

Lisa: That sounds nice.

Gift: Yeah it's great like her big brother but I don't have kids so it's fun to watch but it's not that my sister is a bad person. She thought she understood. She watched other parents. She thought about her own upbringing and formulated these opinions. But when the parents told her, look, lady, it doesn't work that way. My sister was pretty sure it worked that way. And yes, she has just done nothing but eat crow since little Eve was born. The difference is that my sister and many people are credited. Yes, I was wrong. I was completely unprepared for that. I was completely wrong. I'm just so wrong. And I think like other diseases, like you said, we get a broken leg. I think many of us have broken a leg, or at least respect the thoughts, views, and opinions of someone we know has broken a leg. But when it comes to depression, when it comes to mental illness, but the show is about depression. People think they are misrepresenting it. And they are like that, no depression of mine will ever behave like that.

Lisa: Yes.

Gift: And they just walk away with 20 year old arrogance, with no children judging people who have children because they are sure that their child-rearing skills are superior even though they have no children. I think this allows us not to educate the public because they think we already know.

Lisa: And this leads to finding the best place to get advice on managing depression from people with depression.

Gift: Yes, and I don't want everyone to cancel their appointments with their therapists and doctors, right. As someone living with depression, as someone who is dealing with depression, bipolar disorder, and anxiety, the first piece of advice I will give you is to work with your therapist and doctor.

Lisa: For your long-term management, you need a therapist, you need a doctor, take your medication, do your therapy, we just want to talk a little, maybe more on the edges when you are bad day or things just aren't quite there where you want them. It's not about when you are really bad when you are really sick, you are really deep in the hole.

Gift: We'd like to give you a couple of points too, maybe, you know, your mileage may vary as to how to speak to your therapist, doctor, or prescribing doctor because so often when they are dismissive we get it handcuffed somehow because we have the idea that we may not be able to argue with them.

Lisa: Well because it's your fault it's up to you

Gift: Well, it's up to you.

Lisa: It's your fault, not hers.

Gift: Yeah, it's nobody's fault, it's a disease process, I hate the whole thing Oh my god the patient is sick. Is it the patient's fault or the doctor's fault? It's the fault of the depression. It is the fault of the disease. Why? Why do we blame patients or doctors? You know, there's a third person in the room, stupid asses. It is the fault of the disease.

Lisa: Well, people with mental illness are in a bad position because, by definition, your brain is not functioning properly or not at its best. So if your doctor says something and tells you to, it makes sense. I am clearly the problem here. You're kind of stuck.

Gift: You're kind of stuck, but I want people to understand that there are things they can do to stand up for themselves and the first thing is to tell your doctor that I don't accept that. I don't accept that this is my fault and I don't accept that I am stuck. I want real goals. I want you to tell me what to do so that I can write them down. And if I do these things and I don't feel better, then we know that it is not me. In the deepest, darkest depression, and I know this is difficult, take lots of notes, find an ally, find a Lisa, find a friend, find someone to help you keep track of things. Don't talk about depression in that abstract way. I am depressed. What have you done? I went to a doctor. What is the goal? Don't be depressed. We need hard goals. You know i'm depressed What is the goal? Get dressed in the morning? OK, I want to work with my therapist on how to get dressed in the morning. That is a really manageable goal. And I'll give you a hint.

Lisa: Ok, do you have a clue?

Gift: I feel like we beat to death this idea that you should work with your doctor, right Lisa? As if no one is saying the Not Crazy Podcast is a substitute for medical advice. I Agree?

Lisa: Agree,

Gift: OK Good.

Lisa: Totally agree about.

Gift: Well. Let's start at the beginning of the day. One of the problems I often have is that I just can't get up in the morning. Well I don't like when I literally can't. I'm not lying in bed paralyzed or. I'm just waking up and looking around and I think I don't want to do this. Not me. And you remember those depressive episodes, Lisa. It was.

Lisa: It was difficult, it was very difficult, but I bet you have some tips on how to deal with it.

Gift: The first thing I want to say is I think this is where major depression starts, right? I don't want to get this up, or I don't want to leave my couch, or I don't want to leave my house. Just that.

Lisa: It's an overwhelming apathy.

Gift: Yes, yes, and that's how you want to cocoon.

Lisa: Yes, in a big gray blanket.

Gift: Yeah, I don't know what color my blanket was, but

Lisa: No, because it's gray, because it's a depression.

Gift: Oh I understand.

Lisa: Yes, a big gray, wet blanket.

Gift: Oh I don't know what got it wet but

Lisa: Tears,

Gift: Yes,

Lisa: Not really.

Gift: I don't think you're far away, but I have some general tips for that. You know one of the first things is how you know I was like, OK, well, I have to get up. Correct. In order to,

Lisa: Step one.

Gift: Yes, step one, get up. But that's really easy to say, isn't it? It's like I'm depressed. What am I doing? You're just kidding It's not very helpful. How do you get out of bed And I think there are some pointers and tips out there that can help you set an alarm clock across the room, even with the most basic idea of ​​getting out of bed. That helped me because I have to physically get up to turn off the alarm clock. And the alarm clock is so annoying that it overrides that general desire to stay in bed.

Lisa: That's the only way I can get up if I put the alarm clock on the other side of the room, otherwise I'll just turn around and understand. But it really annoys my husband

Gift: Good and.

Lisa: Because it takes so much longer than usual.

Gift: If you don't live alone, you can ask a roommate to turn on a light for you.

Lisa: Yes.

Gift: Or open your window or do something like that. You would do that, Lisa. They would come in and open the windows, turn on the lights, open the door. But if you are actually on your feet physically, that's the least of your problems, isn't it? You get up I mean, the chances of going to the bathroom will get you out of bed. This part eventually works by itself. So the big indicator for me was personal hygiene. Do I take a shower, you know, do I take a shower? Do I shave, do I brush my teeth? And.

Lisa: For reasons unknown, this was something you got fixated on, it just seemed really overwhelming to you. Oddly enough, you would do other things, but you just couldn't get over that particular thing.

Gift: It was so hard. One of the goals I set out to do was to get dressed in order to dress properly.

Lisa: Yes, not dressed in pajamas and robes.

Gift: Right, like out in the world and here, here's the helpful hint folks,

Lisa: Oh yeah.

Gift: So many people say my goal today is to dress nicely, but that's actually like a bunch of little things, isn't it? Getting dressed is the bottom line. There are actually some steps, right? It gets up. People shave, shower, brush their teeth, wash their hair. There are even clean underwear, socks and clothes. And one of the ways I really helped myself a lot was to list all of these things one by one in the correct order. Step one, get up, step two, shave, step three, shower, step four, shampoo. And you think, wow, this is really awkward. But that's it. But who cares? We are moving forward. But it got me off the list a lot of little things. Now you remember Lisa.

Lisa: He would literally cross her off the list.

Gift: And I wrote them on the mirror in my bathroom because most bathroom mirrors, if you buy a dry erase marker, can just write right on them. Actually, I was wrong, choosing clothes was the first thing I put on the list. And usually I could cross that off before going to bed.

Lisa: Jump start for the day.

Gift: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to bed with a win. We tend to do this as people say, I want to graduate from college, OK that's a good goal. But could you imagine showing up on your first day of college and asking how the people are, hey what do I have to do? And they said you have to graduate from college. OK but how? By going to college. Graduation from college is the conclusion. Get dressed, get ready, face the day. That is the conclusion. Write it out. Treat yourself to recognition along the way.

Lisa: You liked having a five-point list that you wrote on the mirror almost every day.

Gift: Yes.

Lisa: And it was like showering, shaving, brushing teeth. And you went straight through the list with the marker and crossed it out over time. It seemed to make you very happy.

Gift: I don't know, it was almost cathartic to achieve things and you think to yourself, if you're like me anyway, well, they're so stupid, they're stupid accomplishments. And if you've never been in the middle of a really major depression, I can understand that knee-jerk reaction that this letter, you know, shave and then tick off, is stupid.

Lisa: But it worked.

Gift: I tell you, the day before I did nothing. Nothing. When I just brushed my teeth, combed my hair, shaved, put on clean underwear, and got dressed in one day, it was an amazing feat. And then I started building on the list, picking up the mail, driving, and getting a diet Coke or a cup of coffee. It was only built until one day I realized that I was just doing this stuff automatically in unquote normal time and quotation.

Lisa: They no longer needed the list.

Gift: I didn't need the list anymore and I usually just realized, oh, huh, I didn't write the list, life would just go on. And we think, why should I blame myself for brushing my teeth? Because it's hard. It's hard for people like us. It is an achievement for people like us. Do not be ashamed of your success. Celebrate it. Well, other people don't need to do that. First of all, you don't know what's on other people's mirrors. Well? You just don't do it. That's number one. And number two, who cares? You don't live your life. You live your life This puts you in the best position.

Lisa: You still do it occasionally

Gift: Occasionally I do

Lisa: Yes.

Gift: It's still one coping skill that I use, you know, another coping skill that I use, Lisa, that you taught me

Lisa: Oh,

Gift: The. Yes.

Lisa: I am sure this is a good one.

Gift: This is super important, are you ready?

Lisa: OK I am ready.

Gift: Sleep hygiene.

Lisa: We all know how much Gabe loves talking about sleep hygiene.

Gift: Anyone who has listened to Gabe Howard for a long time will know how much I love sleep hygiene. I can't exaggerate that I believe that sleep powers my sanity, bipolarity, anxiety, mania, and depression more than anything else. It's an incredible predictor too. But it all starts with respecting sleep and knowing how to handle it. And I usually do this whole big talk about everything I know about sleep hygiene, but I learned it from Lisa. So, really treat everyone. Lisa will teach us sleep hygiene.

Lisa: Ok, sleep hygiene means having a consistent routine and waking up and going to bed. This can be so difficult when you are depressed. As Gabe says, nobody respects sleep. You should only use your bed for sleeping and sex. That's it. Don't have your TV in the bedroom. Don't play with your phone until you go to sleep. None of them. Sleep and sex, that's it.

Gift: It's that simple, it's almost annoying, isn't it? First of all, sleep is just as important as eating. Just listen to me It's just as important as food. If you eat trash all day, you will feel like shit. If you don't get enough sleep, you're going to feel like shit. These things belong together.

Lisa: Well, when people talk about health, they always talk about diet and exercise, but nobody ever falls asleep. Diet, exercise and sleep should be on an equal footing.

Gift: They really, really, really should, but for some reason they don't, so I'll fix this. So is my mission. Do a lot of people hear where to go to bed and get up at the same time? And they may, but with depression I can't control when I fall asleep. And what if I stay up all night thinking, or anxiety follows my depression pretty easily where I just get into that feedback loop and stay up later and later and later. Yeah, it's really rough when the same time comes in the morning and I've only slept two hours and people say to me, but sleep is so important Gabe then you should just sleep all day or it is you I'm gonna have a really bad day You will be irritable, you will be grumpy, you will not get that sleep. Yes, all of these things are true, except for the part where you don't get up and think to yourself, why should I do this to myself for a day? Otherwise you will do this to yourself two days a week for four days. They will mess up your routine. You will abort your sleep cycle. A bad day is terrible. So imagine seven bad days. I got my sleep schedule once, so I don't think I knew bottom-down for a month and that all could have been avoided by a bad day. Well Lisa, the only one who uses your bedroom for sleep and sex, is really knocking a lot of people over because a lot of people use their bedroom as a haven

Lisa: Correct,

Gift: From children,

Lisa: Roommate.

Gift: Roommate. It would be nice if everyone who listens had several rooms in their house and could only dedicate one room. But there are still things you can do in your bedroom to make sure that your bed is only used for sleeping and sex. One thing is to have a chair in your room if you can. If you want to have a TV there, don't watch TV in bed, sit on the chair next to your bed and watch TV. In this way, this boundary is still created in bed.

Lisa: Well, even if for some reason you can't, you have a really small apartment, a consistent bedtime routine, those are the things I do before I go to sleep. You brush your teeth, put on your jams, sit in that chair and read for 20 minutes. You have a consistent routine that you do every night no matter what. Personally, I sometimes don't give enough credit to sleep. When I get really depressed you just start thinking about these thoughts. And for me, staying up late is a form of procrastination. Do you know how you always tell little kids that the sooner you go to bed, the sooner Santa will be here? Well, the earlier you go to bed, the sooner tomorrow will be here. And all of the things you have to do tomorrow will be here. So if you stay up you can put that off. Yes, it's always self-destructive.

Gift: Well, it's self-sabotage, especially for you, Lisa.

Lisa: Yes, I get so much more emotional when I haven't slept, I'm just on the edge of the knife and I can't restore my balance when I'm tired.

Gift: When we talk about treating depression, it would be just ridiculous not to just point out the importance of sleep in managing mental health.

Lisa: And nobody ever talks about it. Your doctor will ask you about your diet or exercise, he will never ask you about your sleep. It is strange.

Gift: Fortunately, if you didn't get enough sleep, Gabe and Lisa would be, frankly, insane.

Lisa: And again, it's one of those things that are so simple. "Really?" I have this life threatening illness and you want me to go to bed on time? Yes,

Gift: Yes,

Lisa: Yes. Yes,

Gift: Yes,

Lisa: I do. Yes,

Gift: Yes yes i do

Lisa: It's not bullshit. Seriously, I speak from experience.

Gift: We also have to think outside the box. I am very happy that I can only use my bedroom for sleeping and sex. I have the rest of the house. But when I travel, for example, when the hotel room has a chair, I sit in the chair to watch TV instead of sitting on the bed. If I have to sit on the bed now, I don't go under the covers and stay in my clothes. In order to

Lisa: That's a good thing.

Gift: The idea is to be creative so that you set up a routine so your body knows it is time to sleep when you go to bed. Another thing I highly recommend is a white noise machine. Only turn on the machine with white noise when you're ready to go to bed and turn off everything else. A fan is very helpful. Turn on the machine with white noise and the fan on when you go to bed, the air over your body, under the covers, in your pajamas, or all of these things just indicate that you are doing this when you are asleep. And then repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat. We can say until we're blue in the face that Lisa doesn't respect sleep, but Lisa is not uncommon.

Lisa, along with sleep hygiene, what are some other things you think people can do to help manage their depression in helpful and meaningful ways?

Lisa: Again, the idea of ​​having a schedule is so important that you get up at the same time each day, and one of the things that could help you keep a schedule is maybe a pet.

Gift: Really, you advise people to get a living being. Shall we start with a plant?

Lisa: Well maybe you should start with a plant, maybe a hamster, hamsters are really nice.

Gift: You know this is very interesting. I am really glad you pointed this out. You know on my mind, dog. Everyone will go out and buy a 100 pound German Shepherd. But you are right, there are pets. I said plant and you raised hamsters. Do you think I'm really trying not to say, hey, do you think depressed people can take care of hamsters?

Lisa: Yes, I actually do that because it gives you something else to focus on, something else to think about, something that isn't just about you. It's someone else, something else that's counting on you. And depending on your pet, especially now, COVID time, you have your pet when you don't have a lot of human interaction. You know it's something that gives you affection and you could get this dog and cuddle and pet it and it's just very comforting.

Gift: Lisa, you had a hamster.

Lisa: I had a hamster as a child. I loved my hamster very much.

Gift: I was hoping that you would just open up and tell people your love for your hamster. What was your hamster's name

Lisa: Twitchell.

Gift: Twitchell. Tell everyone about the depressed little Lisa who takes care of little Twitchell.

Lisa: I was a problematic kid, I had major depression issues, I didn't have a lot of friends, I was very lonely, and I had a hamster. When I think back now, it's really depressing. I actually feel a little bit emotional. I'm 40 and emotionally thinking about the rodent I had when I was 10, but I was ridiculously attached to this hamster. Her name was Twitchell because her nose was twitching. I thought that was incredibly smart. It just made me love something else, you know, because like I said, I was lonely and there was no one else around.

Gift: And it wasn't just about making love, it was also about the routine of taking care of Twitchell.

Lisa: Yes, because you had to feed her, you had to take care of her cage, and of course you want to do that at the same time every day and you felt that responsibility. I need to be at least awake and vigilant enough to do these things, or I'll let them down, you know, so you have that responsibility to someone else and maybe you don't have the incentive to get up and go for yourself, but you do do for your pet.

Gift: Nun, Lisa, du bist von Twitchell weggezogen, als du ein bisschen älter warst, du hast eine Schildkröte und jetzt war ich fasziniert davon, denn als ich Lisa traf, hatte sie eine Schildkröte und sie meinte, nun, ich hatte diese Schildkröte seit ich 10 war. Ich dachte, das stimmt nicht, dass Schildkröten nicht so lange leben. Und sie war wie, Schildkröten leben wie 50, 60 Jahre. Und ich dachte, ich habe nur die kleinen Schildkröten gesehen. Und Lisa sagte.

Lisa: Weißt du, ich hasse das. Oh, als ich ein Kind war, hatte ich die kleinen Schildkröten. Babys? Nein, nein, nein, nicht die Babys, die Kleinen. Babys, das sind Babys. Jeder mag, nein, nein, nein. Das ist eine andere Art von Schildkröte, die klein bleibt. Ja, es ist ein Baby. Und dann sagen sie Dinge wie: Nein, nein, nein. Ich hatte diese Schildkröte wie ein Jahr lang und sie wurde nie größer. Ja, weil du dich nicht gut darum gekümmert hast. Es war ein Baby.

Gabe: Es ist außerordentlich wichtig, dass Sie bei jedem Haustier sicherstellen, dass Sie sich um das Haustier kümmern können.

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: Und dass Sie einen Backup-Plan haben, falls Sie dies nicht können. Gehen Sie jetzt nicht raus und schnappen Sie sich ein Haustier, weil Sie glauben, dass das Haustier alle Ihre Probleme lösen wird. Stellen Sie sicher, dass Sie für das Haustier bereit sind und einen Backup-Plan haben. Backup-Pläne sind sehr wichtig bei der Pflege von Lebewesen. Ich kann nicht genug betonen, dass Sie vielleicht mit einer Pflanze beginnen möchten. Dies ist kein Rat für stark depressive Personen. Dies ist eine fortgeschrittene Fähigkeit. Wir wollten Haustiere erwähnen, weil die Forschung eindeutig da ist, aber wir wollen nicht, dass jeder ein Haustier bekommt, das er langsam foltert und tötet. Ich denke, das versuchen wir zu sagen, Lisa.

Lisa: Denken Sie daran, dass es selbst bei Haustieren viel schwieriger sein kann, sie zu pflegen, insbesondere bei Reptilien und Vögeln. Die Menschen erkennen nicht, wie viel Arbeit und Mühe erforderlich sind, um sie richtig zu pflegen. Und natürlich möchten Sie kein Haustier haben, damit Sie sich schlecht darum kümmern können. Das ist also ein bisschen fortgeschrittenes Können. Stellen Sie sicher, dass Sie Ihre Forschung tun. Ich besaß jahrzehntelang Reptilien und sie nehmen einfach viel mehr Arbeit in Anspruch als die meisten Leute denken.

Gabe: Als jemand, der an Depressionen leidet, muss ich Ihnen sagen, mein Hund, ich liebe meinen Hund. Mein Hund hilft absolut bei meiner Depression. Es hilft bei meiner Routine. Ich muss mich um diesen Hund kümmern. Ich bin stolz darauf, ihn zu beobachten, für ihn zu sorgen, ihn zu formen und ihn zum Tierarzt zu bringen.

Lisa: Und Verantwortung.

Gabe: Ja, ich kann nicht klarer sein, dass Peppy ein Punkt des Stolzes und des Erfolgs für mich ist, aber das heißt, ich möchte sicherstellen, dass ich es ihm recht mache, auch wenn ich krank bin. Es ist von entscheidender Bedeutung, dies zu verstehen. Wir haben also eine Art fröhliches Medium, das sich freiwillig bei der Humane Society engagiert und einen Unterschlupf findet.

Lisa: Dann könnten Sie Dinge streicheln.

Gabe: Dann können Sie mit den Haustieren spielen, sich um die Haustiere kümmern, mit den Haustieren zusammen sein, aber auch dann können Sie nach Hause gehen. Lisa, ich erinnere mich nicht, haben Sie sich jemals freiwillig für ein Tierheim gemeldet?

Lisa: Ja, weil ich keinen Hund in meinem Haus haben wollte und es mir nicht leisten konnte, aber ich wollte sie streicheln können.

Gabe: Ich erinnere mich, dass ich ein paar Wochen lang ein Kätzchen gepflegt habe. Erinnerst du dich daran, als ich gepflegt habe?

Lisa: Ich erinnere mich.

Gabe: That kitten, you were like Gabe got a kitten. I was like, I’m just a foster. Six weeks, and then the kitten was adopted. But that was a really good experience because, one, it was temporary. And two, I had the agency checking in on me. So fostering was actually a great step for me. And I got to play with the kitten.

Lisa: And also, I’m sure if your neighbor or someone you know has a dog, they’ll let you walk it. Dogs can walk for days. If you say, hey, can I take your dog for a walk? They will totally let you do it because, yeah, no one can walk a dog as much as the dog wishes to be walked.

Gabe: You know, I just thought of a service that Kendall and I use to take care of Peppy sometimes, I’m not going to mention the name, but it’s just an app. It’s sort of like Uber for people who walk dogs, take care of pets, you know, check in on them. You can play with other people’s dogs, walk other people’s dogs and make a little money. Just Google Uber of dog walkers. They didn’t pay us. And I’m not certainly referring them. I just I wonder, everybody so far that’s taken care of Peppy from that service has had a day job. I wonder how many of those folks are like, hey, I get to play with puppies and make a little extra money. Sort of reminds me of, like, people like I don’t join a gym. I’m a mover on the weekends.

Lisa: That is an excellent idea that I might wow, think of all the money you’d save. But pets give you something else to focus on and they’re a source of uncomplicated affection.

Gabe: Back in a minute after these messages.

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Lisa: We’re back, talking about depression management.

Gabe: You know, Lisa, we’ve been kind of doing a combo deal here where we tell you how you can play with pets and volunteer, but volunteerism in and of itself is a way to help avoid, alleviate and lift yourself up out of depression.

Lisa: Studies are very clear that volunteerism works, it gives you that something to regularize your schedule, it gives you a place to go, it gives you responsibility, and it gives you that social interaction.

Gabe: It also gives you success, right? I just I used to be a volunteer manager and I called it the warm and fuzzy feeling. You know, everybody said volunteers work for free. No, they don’t. Volunteers do not work for free. They work for that warm and fuzzy feeling. You must connect their efforts with accomplishment, with success. That’s what they want. And I think this is really relevant and important for people who suffer from depression, because a lot of times we feel like we just feel like we’re not doing any good in the world

Lisa: Right.

Lisa: And volunteering gives you those positive accolades.

Gabe: You know, Lisa, we’re very aware of all of the common volunteer activities, you know, volunteering in a soup kitchen or volunteering with animals. But, you know, the mental health community has so many open volunteer opportunities that I don’t think people look into. Now, you want to make sure that your own recovery is very stable and sturdy before you move into them. But I hate it when people who live with mental illness don’t volunteer for our causes because, well frankly, we do have a hard time securing volunteers.

Lisa: Yes, it is a difficult thing, stigma is everywhere. And so, in your community, do you have a drop in center? Do you have a clubhouse program? Is there someplace that you could go to help out?

Gabe: Also, don’t discount volunteering for a fundraiser.

Lisa: Yeah, fundraising is what keeps the lights on.

Gabe: My first foray into mental health volunteerism was for a mental health walk.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: My volunteerism was I was a team captain. I put together a team, I raised some money. I showed up on Walk day, and then I grew from there. That was the first year, you remember it was called Gabe’s Group.

Lisa: Yeah, we got matching T-shirts.

Gabe: Yeah, we’re original at making names. The next year they asked me to do more, right. Not only was I a team captain, but I also gave a speech training other team captains and like getting people excited. And then the year after that, we volunteered to help organize the walk and put up signs. And there’s always stuff that you can do, like look around when you’re at a fundraiser. You know, at the end of it, everybody goes home, ask them if they need help tearing down, you know, all those sponsor signs that you saw along the walk path? Somebody needs to walk that walk path again and take them down. We love volunteers that can help do this. And it makes such a huge difference. I’m sure you can think of a dozen more easy mental health volunteer ideas that you can do no matter what level of recovery you’re in.

Lisa: Yes, don’t discount. Just because you can’t do a lot doesn’t mean you can’t do a little. There’s all sorts of things you could do. Get on the list to help stuff envelopes, pass out literature. You know, how you go to the library and there’s a bulletin board and it has a flier for that group? Someone had to go there and put it there. Be the person who does that. There are so many opportunities.

Gabe: The most important thing is to get engaged, call up the local nonprofits in an area that’s meaningful to you like mental health and say, look, I don’t know what I can do, but here is my skill set. Here is my available time. Utilize me. Now, remember, it’s not instantaneous right. They’re not going to be like, oh, my God, tomorrow, come in. It’s a slow build. And because you don’t know where they are, especially with COVID and the pandemic.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: There’s a lot less, unfortunately, right now. But keep an ear to the ground, ask if they have an email list and get signed up for it. The point is, is giving back. It matters. It mattered to me. Lisa, I believe it matters to you.

Lisa: Of course, and there’s actual evidence to back this up, studies conclusively show that volunteering helps depression.

Gabe: One of the advanced volunteer activities, of course, is peer support, leading a support group, teaching classes. There’s a lot of national mental health charities that will train you to be a support group facilitator or coordinator or teach various classes that they offer. Now, I want to be very, very clear. You need to make sure that you are secure in your stability.

Lisa: And you’re pretty far along in your own recovery.

Gabe: Yeah, but it absolutely helps prevent relapse. It prevents depression, it gives you that, you know, that weekly you know, oomph, that success. Now, Lisa is a trained teacher. She taught classes. They were 12-week classes once a week for 12 weeks. I am a support group facilitator. Every Thursday for a year and a half, I sat in a church basement and facilitated a mental health support group. And we both can just not say enough about that. But we grew from smaller volunteerism. Lisa, why did you sign up to be a teacher?

Lisa: The truth? Because I had attended the class and I thought it was great and it helped me so much and I talked to the director of the group and said, oh, my goodness, this class is amazing. You need to have more of them. You need to get more people to take this class. And she looked at me and said, we don’t have more classes because we don’t have enough teachers. And I thought, oh, walked right into that. I’m not going to be able to say no now. And how many years ago was that? And here we are.

Gabe: Oh, yeah. Years and years and years, I just want to set the proper expectations of where you are in your recovery, will determine what kind of volunteer opportunities are available for you. When I first started, I liked the open ended. You know, we accept volunteers between noon and five, you know, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. If you’re here, great. If you’re not, you’re not. And then I built into OK, we’re counting on you. We need you here at noon every Wednesday. I build into that. And some volunteer opportunities, they come with training. Lisa, you had to take a, I believe, a forty-hour training class and like a certified peer supporter is, I believe, a 60-hour training class, at least in the state of Ohio. Different states have different things. To become a facilitator for the mental health support group that I led, I actually had to travel to another city, stay in a hotel for three nights and have a pretty intensive training over three days.

Lisa: So, these are more of your advanced skills, but to get a start, stuff some envelopes, do some data entry, pick up litter on the walk path. There’s always something.

Gabe: And this leads us straight in to stay connected. I know that when I was sick, I just wanted to shut the world out.

Lisa: You didn’t have the energy.

Gabe: I didn’t want anybody to see me and I didn’t want to see them and staying connected was so valuable, I was very fortunate. I did not cultivate a group. A group cultivated me. They were my mom and dad. They were my siblings who checked in on me. They were friends that even though I did everything I could to get rid of them. Well, Lisa kept coming over. I think that sometimes I could have dipped a lot lower, but people were banging on my door asking me if I was OK and I cannot stress how I just I did so little to deserve that. It’s not like something that I worked on. So my advice to you is if you have people that are banging on your door when you are well, thank them. Thank them so much. Just be like, thank you for checking in on me. When things are great, praise them for caring about you enough to show up at your house unannounced after you’ve ignored their phone call for four days. Lisa, thank you for showing up at my house unannounced.

Lisa: You’re welcome.

Gabe: After I ignored your phone call for four days. But what are some things that you can do to cultivate that group if you don’t have one, if you’re not as fortunate as I was?

Lisa: Well, yeah, long term you’re going to want to cultivate that group and basically just go out there and make friends, and you could do that through volunteering, through joining activities that you enjoy, your family, your workplace. So that’s a long-term plan for long term management. But in those acute moments when you’re really sick, force yourself, even though you don’t want to. Get up and go out with the friend who’s inviting you or answer the door or answer the phone call, you just have to force yourself because that keeps you connected to that group.

Gabe: Now, when we say force yourself, obviously, if you need medical attention, get medical attention, but if you’re wavering, I cannot tell you how many times I was like, you know what, I don’t want to. And I.

Lisa: Because you feel like it doesn’t have immediate benefit in the moment, and you’ve got enough going on. You’re like, oh, I just can’t deal with that right now. It’s just not worth it. But it is worth it. It will definitely bring you long term benefits and it also brings you short term benefits. So, when you’re waffling, oh, God, do I have the energy for this? I don’t know. I’m just going to stay home. Don’t. It’s a bad idea.

Gabe: And this is where cultivation really, really matters, one of the things that I did in my social circle was, again, when we were well. You know, so many,

Lisa: When you’re well.

Gabe: Yes.

Lisa: You got to set this up when you’re well.

Gabe: Nobody wants to discuss mental illness and mental health issues and depression when they’re well, they want to pretend that it’s never coming back. Listen, it’s going to come back.

Lisa: It’s coming back, yeah.

Gabe: So I cannot stress this enough. But Lisa and I, we know when to push each other and we also know when to be honest with each other. So I say to Lisa, hey, let’s go out to dinner and she’ll be like, you know, I just don’t want to leave my house. And I’ll be like, OK. See, the first thing that Lisa did right was tell me the truth. She told me, I just don’t want to leave my house.

Lisa: Yeah, don’t try to find an excuse, because then they’re going to find out that your excuse isn’t real, then it’s going to be a whole thing.

Gabe: Right, step number two is ask some questions. Hey, Lisa, what’s going on? Is there a reason that you don’t want to leave? Is there anything I can do? Is there something that I can do to make it better? You know, I suggested this really loud, busy restaurant late at night. What if we go more low key? What if we go to the local diner? What if we just go to a fast-food restaurant? What if we just go to a coffee shop and just sit and talk? Would that help?

Lisa: Or maybe something super low key? What if I just come over with a pizza?

Gabe: The point is, is by setting this up when you’re well, I know that I can trust Lisa to tell her the truth, which is that I just don’t want to leave my house. And Lisa knows that I have given her permission to push a little and say, you know, look, let’s alter the plan. You know, what can we do? If you don’t want to go out on a Friday night because it’s busy, let’s change to breakfast on Saturday, that kind of thing. And it doesn’t always work. You know, Lisa and I have, you know, certainly pissed each other off a lot by pushing, but it works more than you think. But for me, Lisa, trusting me enough to say, hey, look, I’m just too anxious, depressed, moody, whatever to leave my house, that’s like really meaningful when it comes to cultivating relationships because she trusts me with this. This is not the kind of thing that you tell somebody you don’t trust. This is the kind of thing that you tell a real friend. Your friends will pick up on this. But again, I have to stress.

Lisa: Gotta, you got to cover your bases when you’re well,

Gabe: When you’re well.

Lisa: You’re going to need to build up credit, friend credit in the bank, when you’re well because you’re not going to be able to do it when you’re sick. To find that friend that doesn’t mind your bad moods or your dark moods, you’re going to need someone that you’re really coming through for when you’re well. And how well do you know your friends? If they’re saying, oh, no, I can’t do it, I can’t go out, I’m too depressed, how hard can you push? How hard can you insist? No, look, you need to do this. It’s for your own good. Come on, let’s go. And at what point do you need to back off? It’s a difficult skill.

Gabe: I really can’t stress enough that part of managing depression is managing your support group, cultivating those friendships and managing the people around you, and this means that you need to have conversations when you’re sick, when you’re not sick, when you’re perfect, when you’re, you know, wavering a little bit. It just needs to be this constant communication. And one of the reasons that is, is because of their own boundaries as well. You know, maybe they’re willing to adjust their plans for you. Hey, Gabe, are you ready to go out this Friday? You know, I just really don’t want to leave my house, OK? Look, I’ve got tickets to my favorite music group or sporting event. And you being melancholy or dragging me down is not something that I’m willing to do with hundred- and fifty-dollar tickets. So you know what? I’ll catch up with you tomorrow. I love you. Thank you for being honest with me and thank you for not dragging down my event. They need to be aware of this as well. And you need to not be offended by that, because I got to tell you,

Gabe: I have ruined more than one event for Lisa where she would have preferred that I not tried, that I would have stayed home and she would have caught up with me the next day. That’s why this constant communication needs to happen. It also needs to happen when you screw up. You know, Lisa, one of the things that causes me the most amount of depression is when I know, when I know that my depression has impacted you and not talking to you about it just makes it worse. The important thing to remember here is that you need to have ongoing communication with your support system, with your friends in order to cultivate a real relationship. You need to be talking about this always, not just when you need something, not just when you’re in crisis. It can’t be the elephant in the room. And people wonder when it’s going to wreck the day. You need to weave it into your relationships because it’s just so incredibly vital to who we are as people. We suffer from depression. That’s who we are.

Lisa: We all think it’s not going to come back when we’re well and it is. It’s going to come back and you need to be ready for that.

Gabe: And when you’re ready for it, it really, really lessens its impact and having these conversations with your friends lets you avoid things like biting off more than you can chew and ruining their event. It allows them to help you. But remember, it’s really important that when you’re well, you repay people and repayment is not give them money or buy them dinner. No, when things are going well, let them pick. If you wrecked somebody’s weekend, make up for it later. Don’t dwell on the fact that you wrecked it. Make a plan to fix it. You know, Lisa, I wrecked a great many.

Lisa: Yeah, there was some high points.

Gabe: Yeah, yeah, and one of the things that Lisa and I finally learned is, one, I need to be honest when I can’t do it, because that allows Lisa to make other plans of somebody that’s not going to wreck the plans. Right. We can all agree with that.

Lisa: Those were expensive tickets, that’s all I’m saying.

Gabe: But it also made me, when I was well, find things that Lisa wanted to do, you know, how many times I’ve gone to Red Lobster with Lisa?

Lisa: Red Lobster is delicious.

Gabe: I hate this place. Like there’s nothing in there that I like, but it’s one of Lisa’s favorite restaurants. It’s probably her favorite chain restaurant, right?

Lisa: I can’t help it. Yeah, it probably is my favorite chain restaurant.

Gabe: Yeah, I hate this place, it’s awful, it’s awful in every way, but but

Lisa: Lobsterfest?

Gabe: Yeah.

Lisa: I’m so sad for you that you don’t have the joy of Lobsterfest.

Gabe: But I go to these things because it’s meaningful to Lisa and Lisa is like, hey, Gabe has no reason to do this. He doesn’t want to. These are the kind of things that build you goodwill. And also an apology goes a long way. So many people are like, why do I have to apologize for my illness? Yeah, it’s not your fault, but.

Lisa: It’s your responsibility. Whose fault is it?

Gabe: Yeah, it’s not their fault either, right? Lisa, doesn’t it suck to have to apologize for something is not your fault?

Lisa: Yeah, something that you can’t control, but, hey, life isn’t fair.

Gabe: It really reminds me, you know, Lisa and I have a really good friend who gets migraines and she’s constantly apologizing when the migraines, frankly, interrupt our plans. But, yeah, it’s not our fault we didn’t give her a migraine.

Lisa: Right. So what do you do with that?

Gabe: Yeah, so she says, I’m sorry, we say we know it’s cool, what can we do to help? But imagine if she went the other way. Look, I have a migraine. It’s not my problem. All right? I didn’t do it. It’s not my fault. Could you imagine the reaction to that?

Lisa: No one would tolerate that.

Gabe: Yeah, we’ll be like, look, I’m sorry you have a migraine, but I didn’t do anything. You can almost hear it now. That’s how we have to be with mental illness. I know it’s rough because it feels like stigma. It feels like discrimination and it feels like one more thing that’s put upon us. But the reality is, is anybody managing any illness would probably have to apologize for it. I mean, look, you know, I threw up on Lisa’s mom. It wasn’t my fault, but I definitely owed an apology for it.

Lisa: Well, longtime listeners know there’s more to that story, but of course, we don’t hold it against Gabe because he was so apologetic after it happened.

Gabe: I felt terrible.

Lisa: He definitely made amends.

Gabe: But could you imagine if I would have said, hey, I’m five days postop, this ain’t my problem?

Lisa: Yeah, screw you. I didn’t mean to.

Gabe: I’m not going to offer to clean your car up. Nobody holds it against me because I apologized and because

Lisa: And corrected it.

Gabe: I was truly sorry and because I made amends and now it’s just, now it’s just a funny story that’s lying in another episode of the podcast that you can dig through and find. And I don’t come off so well, but much like managing depression, I did not manage my post op too well and well, that did give me just a slight bit of culpability.

Lisa: But again, no one is holding a grudge because you apologized in a sincere way.

Gabe: Lisa, to wrap all this up in a nice bow, you know, managing depression is difficult and it’s one more thing that we have to work on. If you could boil this all down to like one piece of advice, what would it be? What’s like the most important thing to remember when managing depression?

Lisa: I don’t know if it’s the most important thing, but something that it was always very helpful to me that a doctor recommended years ago was to make sure that you take time to do things you enjoy. And you’re thinking, I’m depressed, I don’t enjoy anything. Well, try to think of things that you enjoy when you’re not depressed, stuff that you normally enjoy, even if you’re not having a good time with it now. A lot of times when I get depressed, I think, well, I don’t really want to go do that activity because it’s just too much effort. But also, I know I’m not going to enjoy it, and that just makes the depression worse. It becomes this cycle because now I’m not having a good time and I know that I should be having a good time, but I’m not. That’s just really depressing. And you feel like you’re almost wasting your effort. You know, I have a finite amount that I can do this. I’m not going to waste it when I’m in such a bad mood, but it kind of pulls you out of it. I was surprised at how well that worked for me. Forcing yourself to do things that you normally enjoy is extremely beneficial.

Gabe: The reality is, is when we only focus on the things that we hate, dislike or that remind us of being lonely, then yeah, that’s all we can focus on. Find the little things, a rerun of a television show that made you laugh or that you have fond memories of just anything, anything to pull you out of it. It really does matter in just a really, really meaningful way.

Lisa: And keep in mind, if you have reached recovery, you know it’s possible. I don’t want to say something so simplistic as, oh, this too shall pass, but it is cyclical. I have periods of depression and eventually, through treatment, it gets better. So, it can get better. It will get better. And you know that it will because that’s what has happened to you in the past and that will happen again. You just have to wait it out.

Gabe: You know, Lisa, it really sounds like you’re saying that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Lisa: Ooohh, the best predictor of future success is past success, so you know, what you’ve done in the past that has helped and what has hurt? Try to focus on the helped.

Gabe: Rinse and repeat, just like your favorite shampoo. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this week’s episode of the Not Crazy podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and I am the author of Mental Illnesses Is an Asshole and Other Observations, which, of course, you can get on Amazon.com. But if you want to get it for less money, if you want me to sign it and you want Not Crazy podcast swag, they’re really cool stickers, head over to gabehoward.com and buy it there. I will personally mail it to you with the help of Lisa.

Lisa: I was going to say, you’re not doing that personally, I will mail it to you. Don’t worry, it will get there.

Gabe: Wherever you downloaded this podcast, please subscribe. Also rank and review, write a review. Use your words and let other people know why they should listen.

Lisa: And we’ll see you next Tuesday.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person? Not Crazy travels well. Have us record an episode live at your next event. E-mail show@psychcentral.com for details.

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