Politics, Elections, and the Put up-Fact Period

Let's talk politics and lies. Why are they so common today? On today's Psych Central Podcast, our host speaks to writer and communications expert Tim Ward, who explains why the truth matters – especially when it comes to our elected officials. They discuss our cognitive prejudices, such as the "halo" and "anchoring effects" that can cause us to turn a blind eye and believe the lies we hear.

Learn about the different types of lies politicians tell and how we can avoid falling victim to fake news. Click the player above to listen now!

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Tim Ward is a co-owner of Intermedia Communications Training, Inc. Based in Washington, DC, he works with global organizations to help them communicate better. He is a former print journalist and author of ten books. Tim is also the editor of Changemakers Books. He lives in Bethesda, Maryland with his wife and business partner Teresa.

Via the Psych Central Podcast Host

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and public speaker living with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book "Insanity Is An Asshole" and other observations available on Amazon. signed copies are also available directly from the author. To learn more about Gabe, please visit his website gabehoward.com.

Computer generated transcript for "Post-Truth Era" episode

Editor's note: Please note that this transcript was computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammatical errors. Thank you.

Announcer: You are listening to the Psych Central Podcast, where guest experts in the fields of psychology and mental health share thought-provoking information in simple everyday language. Here is your host, Gabe Howard.

Gabe Howard: Hi everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of The Psych Central Podcast. I'm your host, Gabe Howard, and I'm calling you on the show today. We have Tim Ward. Tim is co-author of the book Pro Truth: A Practical Plan for Bringing the Truth Back into Politics, along with former guest Dr. Gleb Tsipursky. Tim, welcome to the show.

Tim Ward: It is a pleasure to be with you today and I thank your audience for inviting both of us into your thoughts.

Gabe Howard: Tim, I'm really happy to have you. Now for you and Dr. Advertised Tsipursky's book, and I'm reading this. This book provides a practical plan for getting the truth out of the 2020 election. Find out how citizens can turn back the tide of postal truth, politics, false news, and misinformation. That's a big statement. And frankly it sounds like something I would expect a politician to make you roll your eyes and think you can't. Can you address that?

Tim Ward: Well, you're right, I can't, but we can. People are tired of hearing politicians lie to them. They realized that when people lie about the pandemic and what is causing it and what we can do to protect ourselves, it affects not only their work, their world, but also their health. So if you choose people because they lie well, you will end up with people who lie well. It's all connected. And I think the people of America don't want to live in a post-truth society where the truth doesn't matter. The truth is important. And we can together send a strong message this election season so that politicians of all kinds, we don't choose anyone, see of all things that you have to respect your voters. And the way to do that is to tell them the truth.

Gabe Howard: One of the phrases you used was post-truth. Can you explain what that is?

Tim Ward: Sure, I think that was the Oxford English Dictionary's 2000 word, and it means in that era that it matters less whether things are true or not than whether they have emotionally appealed to voters or not. If you tell a lie that is really emotionally convincing, you are not going to punish voters for it. They'll just say it serves our side. You know, there's a lot going on in politics

Conviction, but it must also be conviction for the common good. And if people just use persuasive techniques to lie and deceive people about what is actually happening, you are not really serving the common good. And why do people do this? You know, we invest heavily in our side profits. When you think of someone who watches a soccer game when their team is penalized, what is the first thing you do? The referee is blind?

Gabe Howard: Yeah.

Tim Ward: This is an unfair call. The referee is biased. So there is a tendency that your side is always right. That is a natural human tendency. And what difference does it make in a soccer game when you feel that way? But when it comes to politics, there is a lot more at stake.

Gabe Howard: I'm cynical, I just want to say that up front, but don't all politicians lie? I'm forty-three years old and the only truth is that politicians lie.

Tim Ward: Well, let me first agree and then qualify by saying that some do worse than others. There are many fact checkers out there who can give you a rating. How many lies have been told? And when it comes to quality, too, there are different types of lies. There are some lies that over-generalize, exaggerate, and maybe hide some things that are true. And then there are blatant lies on your face that say one thing one day and something else the next. And then there is gas lighting where the media is reporting a lie that says, no, they are the liars, not me. Trying to get people to doubt their own sense of reality. One of the things we encourage people to do is to say, OK, suspect all politicians of lying, but especially those you may prefer. Check for yourself what types of lies you are being told. Are you being told more white lies or exaggerations or are you being deliberately and systematically lied to?

Gabe Howard: One of the things that I don't think Americans understand is evolution, especially among politicians who have long been known to the public. And the example I use is myself when I was 15 years old. If you ask me, Gabe, what's the best soda in the world? I would have said Mountain Dew. And now, at forty-three, if you ask me, you know, Gabe, what's the best soda in the world? I would say Diet Coke. It is surely possible for someone who plays these two films in a row to say, OK, did you lie early in your political career, or are you lying now to become what I am running for? That's just a change of mind. Of course we call that flip flopping, I suppose. But

Tim Ward: Right.

Gabe Howard: I'm also thinking about how you said exaggerated. Is there a difference between this little house, this tiny house and this thousand square meter house? I have to imagine that Bill Gates thinks my house is small, while anyone who lives in New York's Manhattan thinks my house is huge. The fact remains, it's still two thousand square feet.

Tim Ward: Right. So it's really important to be able to say that it's two thousand square feet because that's a fact.

Gabe Howard: Right.

Tim Ward: Big or small, narrow or spacious. These are value judgments that can only really be interpreted if someone attributes them to a fact. So it is important to be able to talk about facts. When a politician says my plan will fix this in relation to the country, is it legitimate to say, oh yes? What are the specific details of your plan? And when they say it is a secret.

Tim Ward: Or if they give you some ideas about the plan and you say, but that's the opposite of what you've said in the past, have you changed your mind? And the politician says, oh, I never said that. This is what you have to worry about. It's not so much whether someone changed their mind, it's whether they say or not, I never said that when they actually did. We have to be smarter when it comes to listening to lies when politicians speak. So there are many different ways you can try to fool people. What really matters is the intention. When a political figure is really trying to explain what they're doing, they may be exaggerating. You can be an exaggeration. That's one thing. But when they say things that are wrong, maybe even about their opponents' plans, it should be a red flag for us. When we get these red flags, we should be of a higher standard that will result in checking everything we hear from them.

Gabe Howard: You claim that the current political and media landscape is directed against truth and facts. Why do you think that? And how do you think it came about?

Tim Ward: A big part of that is social media. We lived in a world where the mainstream media, big networks, big big newspapers had budgets to scrutinize everything. And, by and large, they got everything right. But the internet has completely changed the game. This has resulted in a 24 hour news cycle. It has cut the budgets of reputable news organizations. Therefore, it is easier for them to report not only the news of the day but also the news of the minute. Someone is tweeting something they're sending out, boom, news report, so and so X says without seriously checking X. So claims and opinions are expressed. And these facts are more difficult to get at. On top of that, people share things on social media and your friends read them, and we're more likely to trust things that are said by our friends and family. So when I see, oh my friend Gabe just sent me this article. Oh, they say alligators are migrating to the Great Lakes. Impressive. I'm going to pass this on to my friends because it's from someone you trust. You tend to think it's truer. They tend to make it easier to ship. Because of this, there is so much misinformation on social media.

Gabe Howard: I just can't help but think, is this just another book that is against Trump? Is that really what you say Trump is bad? He has to go. He is a liar. And you just wrote a book to prove it?

Tim Ward: Well, there are books like that out there. We have a different point of view and our point of view is the truth, and any politician who wants to show the truth and sign the pro-truth pledge attached to the book and then willing to follow that standard will wholeheartedly embrace it . We believe that people can change. And if they change, they should be rewarded for choosing to tell the truth and choosing to be honest, especially if they are public figures. Over a thousand elected officials

have signed the pro-truth pledge so far. Regarding Trump, he has repeated over 20,000 falsehoods and misleading statements since his election, according to most news sources. It's an incredible number and it shows an incredible disregard for the truth. So I would say that anyone who listens to the President should check carefully what he hears from him. And if he says something without evidence, ask yourself why there is no evidence for it. If he had evidence he would surely give it. So if someone is making claims and not showing evidence, it should be a red flag. That should be a warning. This claim may not be true.

Gabe Howard: Well, a lot of people would argue that he didn't make 20,000 false claims. That the liberal media lied, that the fact that websites are being checked is biased against him, that it is fake news, and that he is actually an incredibly honest person who is being attacked by a smear campaign. Well, that really speaks more to a cognitive bias, I suppose. And I wonder too – we as a society believe that all politicians except our man lie. We never

Tim Ward: Yes

Gabe Howard: Do you think the person we voted for is lying. It's everyone else. It's really a cognitive tendency. Correct? Can you explain what it is and why people believe it?

Tim Ward: Sure, cognitive biases are mental blind spots that everyone has, you know, our brains evolved to help us survive in the African savannah and the social mechanisms associated with how our brains evolve and to trust and trust us Make many shortcuts for who we should trust and why we should trust them. And once people show the traits of the kind of person we should trust, it's easy to keep trusting them. Someone could just say, OK Donald Trump, celebrity, successful businessman, I trust him. So this is a tendency called the halo effect. And that means like a halo on an angel. If they are good at some things you tend to halo them in other things. They think it's movie stars supporting a health product or a watch brand. Why are you doing that? Because we think, oh, that movie star, he likes that. It must be good. In fact, their ability to act well or look good has nothing to do with whether or not their watch is working. So

Gabe Howard: Very true, very true.

Tim Ward: This is an example of a tendency that can lead people to make chronically bad judgments. I'm going to connect it together in what is called anchoring bias. And once we have made a strong impression, it becomes very difficult to break away from that impression. One could think of love at first sight. It's a good parallel to that. Sometimes you meet someone we fall in love with and we fall in love with. It can be months before we see that he's actually not a very nice person.

Gabe Howard: Or they're not good for us, it's there

Tim Ward: Exactly.

Gabe Howard: A concept that I love, it's called new relationship energy. Until then, everything will be perfect

new relationship energy subsides. Correct.

Tim Ward: Right.

Gabe Howard: Whether it takes days, weeks, or months, they're perfect. But then at some point reality sets in.

Tim Ward: Right, right.

Gabe Howard: But during the new relationship energy phase. Oh, it's addicting.

Tim Ward: Yeah, I think for a lot of people one of the things they found attractive about Trump at first was that he wasn't like a politician. He seemed to be saying exactly what he was up to. He did not seem to carefully formulate political positions to please others or the media and many people I think. So what was it called? This new energy.

Gabe Howard: That new relationship energy. He was different. Yes.

Tim Ward: Exactly. And in 2016 that is understandable for some people. Four years later, I think that is worn out. The new relationship has waned for many people.

Gabe Howard: We'll be stepping down, but we'll be back right after this news.

Sponsor Message: Gabe and I wanted to tell you about Psych Central's other podcast that I host, Not Crazy. It's a face-to-face conversation about the world of mental illness and is moderated by me and my ex-wife. You should check it out at PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy or your favorite podcast player.

Sponsor Message: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Safe, convenient and affordable online advice. Our consultants are licensed, accredited professionals. Everything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist whenever you deem it necessary. A month of online therapy often costs less than a traditional face-to-face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Gabe Howard: And we're back with Tim Ward, co-author of Pro Truth: A Practical Plan for Bringing Truth Back to Politics. One of the things you mentioned earlier was that over a thousand politicians signed the Pro Truth Pledge. Can you tell our listeners what that is?

Tim Ward: The promise was made by my co-writer Gleb Tsipursky and Dr. By training a behavioral scientist who specializes in cognitive neuroscience, Tsipursky created how our brains process truth, truth, and lies. So he created these 12 behaviors that will help you be more truthful and less likely to spread misinformation, especially online, but also help others, your friends, and your networks better evaluate the expressions of the truth, too. The Pro-Truth Promise can make you someone who can be more certain that you are spreading truthful information online rather than accidentally spreading lies. So, for example, checking facts or willing to question sources from your friends before sharing anything can help reduce the spread of misinformation and provide us with a healthier internet. So that is the purpose of the pro-truth promise. I signed it myself and can confirm that it has changed my behavior.

Gabe Howard: I believe you when you say it changed your behavior, but we're not interested in Tim Ward right now. How do you know, or how does Dr. Tsipursky, that this promise of truth will change people's behavior in the first place?

Tim Ward: Right. Excellent. That was Gleb's question when he came up with it. Being a scientist, he has made an effort and given other scientists the opportunity to conduct research experiments on the pro-truth promise. And not one, but two peer-reviewed studies have been published in scientific journals that now confirm the significant behavioral change those who signed the Pro Truth Pledge have made on their social media. So you just looked at people's social media behavior. Then people accepted the promise and studied their behavior afterwards. Now that social media is out there, it was actually easy. From the time I signed the pledge, they were able to track their behavior for four weeks after they were signed and the four weeks before they were signed, and see if they passed on and passed on things that were not properly verified or true. These studies are now being published. You can find the details in the book. And we invite everyone who not only wants to take a look at the research, but can also do more research.

Gabe Howard: I like anything that is fact backed, and it's interesting that you said you were watching yourself on social media the four weeks before. One of the advantages of this, of course, is that they haven't signed it yet and probably don't know that they will sign it. Correct. So when you go

Tim Ward: Right.

Gabe Howard: Back to those four, it's pure.

Tim Ward: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: I mean, it's amazing when you think about it from a scientific point of view. So let's talk about the subtitle of your book: A Practical Plan for Bringing the Truth Back into Politics. Can you tell our listeners about this plan without reading the book to us?

Tim Ward: Sure, there are three basic steps. The first step is in the book, read it, and become smarter at telling truth from lies. Protect yourself. There are practical things you can do, so it will be more difficult to deceive you. The second thing is to spread good practices by signing the Pro Truth Pledge and practicing truthful behavior on social media and email with what you share. Then there is the social aspect. You can join the pro-truth movement. Signing the pledge is the first step, but you can volunteer. You can

Post about the pro-truth movement. And there are other ways you can support the movement. Tell your friends about it. If you have friends who you think are more truthful, you can give them a copy of the book or just email them about the promise. Explain why you signed it. So these two steps, personally, your own relationship and then working as part of the movement. We believe this plan can have policy implications. And let me say one of the practical things I work with. The person currently in charge of setting up our volunteers is not just the presidential election, but there are all of these debates that will be happening in the city halls with officials to choose from. We want people who are for the truth to stand up and ask them questions. Obviously it's virtual now.

Gabe Howard: Right.

Tim Ward: Ask them questions, call and ask them questions. Do you value the truth? Have you signed the pro-truth pledge? And if they haven't signed it, will you sign the Pro Truth Pledge? Give them a chance to sign it.

Gabe Howard: One of the things I think about with everything you've just said is that it just sounds way too easy. So I'm basically going to ask the same question with radically different words. How do you convince people who believe in lies that align with their emotionally motivated reasoning? You believe it. You are emotionally invested in it. How do you get them to turn away from them and instead believe in facts that are likely to be very uncomfortable for them? How can you stem this tide? Because they are comforting lies versus unpleasant facts, and most people want to be comfortable. How do you change your mind?

Tim Ward: You are absolutely right and the sad truth is that you cannot change your mind. There are things you can do with people who hold that view, but people who are just invested in their side and don't care about the facts. These are not the ones we are working on to reach with the truth and the promise of truth. We work on those who have enough. We are working on those who want their country to be more based on truth and facts in its politics. Let's say only one in 20 people has realized that the truth matters in the past four years. Well, five percent of the electorate would be enough to swing most states.

Gabe Howard: That's very, very true. We have this tendency when we say one in 20, one in 20, that's not very many. That's five percent. There is no one in my life who, if they got a five percent increase, that their job wouldn't take everyone to dinner and think that this was just the most massive number in history of all time. When they get a five percent discount on something they bought, or their car, or their house, and so on, then five percent is suddenly that gigantic figure until we start saying, well, we get one of 20 who believes the truth. This is nothing. Why do you think this is? Why? I mean why.

Tim Ward: Well, Dr. Tsipursky may roll his eyes because I'm not going to provide scientific research for what I'm about to say. It's just something that common sense does. Human nature is deeply rooted in emotions. People who are important to us, ideas that are important to us, move us just like hunger and fear. We can think about numbers, but we don't feel them deeply. And that means it's easy to get misled about numbers. We have very peculiar cognitive prejudices about numbers that can

sometimes lead us to very bad decisions. People will hear one percent as something that is very small and insignificant, or as we just talked about five percent as small and insignificant, when five percent is actually the difference between a flood flowing down a city street and a flood can that doesn't.

Gabe Howard: Right. It's interesting what you said about math because even if you talk about math, I hate math. It was my worst grade in school. I feared them and

Tim Ward: Uh-huh.

Gabe Howard: And I'm not good at it. I don't like numbers because they are so rigid. And that's how I am wired. I like the gray. I like to discuss things while math five plus five is always ten. There is no

Tim Ward: Yes

Gabe Howard: Wiggle room. There is no discussion.

Tim Ward: Yeah. Yes.

Gabe Howard: Five plus five is ten. There's nothing to talk about and I love to talk, but I like that human connection

Tim Ward: Yes

Gabe Howard: You know too. I mean that is.

Tim Ward: Yes, I agree with you. We all need to figure out what numbers to look out for and how do we know those numbers are true? Correct. So there is a really crazy number out there called the "r" number that is very important for pandemics. This is the transmission rate of infections. And if you have a pandemic and a person passes it on to a person or less than your "r" is less than one and the pandemic is going to die out. But if your "r" is more than one, the pandemic will spread. This number is really important to scientists. And one of the problems that we've seen in the US is that we can't get that number below one. That means the infections will continue to spread and never go away if that number is greater than one. Hence, it is of great concern to the scientists working on how we can get this pandemic under control.

Gabe Howard: And to build on that, someone else is going to find an entirely different number. He will say only 2% die and so it doesn't really matter, or 180,000 people have been infected, but there are 400 million people. So are we really giving up our constitutional rights and civil liberties with so few numbers? And it's very interesting that we can use math that way because I mean I would argue that I don't care if the death rate is one or 180,000, whether it's you or not

Someone you love, this number is really, honestly, irrelevant because mom or grandma or your child or your best friend is gone. So it's interesting. And I think it goes back to the cognitive bias you explained. We have this cognitive tendency in our mind that it's an insignificant number as long as it's nobody we know, and hey, people die anyway. But those cognitive prejudices are instantly destroyed when we or someone we love are. And suddenly we get in and see that people keep changing their minds. As a mental health attorney, I can get someone to look to the mental health advocacy if they or a loved one is diagnosed, ends up in the mental health system, and is traumatic and / or poor experience. Then suddenly they want to fix it. If I spoke to the same person two years ago when they didn't know anyone with severe and persistent mental illness, that's fine. I mean, people have health insurance. If you're doing what you're supposed to do, all of these reasons make the mental health safety net unimportant to America as a whole. Is it really like that? Is that a good analogy?

Tim Ward: Of course, what you are pointing out is vital to us as citizens, but also to our political leaders. This is about how you can take numbers that guide politics and connect them to realities that affect people's lives. You know, there is this terrible but brilliant quote that Joseph Stalin gave us years ago. First, death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. From the point of view of where we are today, not only is it important to know what numbers mean, how numbers actually affect us, but also to know that politicians are often cleverly misusing numbers to advance their political goals. They can even be true numbers. At the start of the pandemic, some politicians said, Oh, there are only 15 cases in the country encouraging people to ignore them. And then they said, oh, sure, there are deaths, but there are fewer deaths than the flu, which encourages people to ignore it. Those were true numbers, but they ignored the fact that pandemics have an exponential spread. And if you ignore it when the numbers fall, the number becomes huge and almost impossible to control what happened.

Gabe Howard: The question that concerns me here is, do you really believe that your efforts can have an impact on our political system? I mean, with all due respect, but you wrote a book that said, hey, there's a lot of lies in politics. Here's what we can do better: And I guess we didn't already know. And I think that shows apathy on my part. And I have to imagine that there is probably a lot of apathy in America about what is going on in politics.

Tim Ward: Yeah, it's out of my hands and it's not in Gleb's hands, we can both, we both, but everyone who has signed the pro-truth makes a promise to everyone who appreciates the truth and those of the lack of it Truth in our disgusted politics is today. Everyone has the power to influence their friends, their networks and others around them and to influence their own political system. Whether this is enough to make big changes depends on how many people are motivated to make these types of changes. But if there is one thing I think I know about the United States, it is that when people have enough, they are ready to stand up and make change. I think this is the year when people get tired of life. And it is my hope and Gleb's hope that they will make the truth down and take a stand.

Gabe Howard: I like that, thank you Tim. One of the positions people should take is to sign the pro-truth pledge. Where can you find and sign this promise?

Tim Ward: It's as simple as you can imagine, www.ProTruthPledge.org, www.ProTruthPledge.org. Not only can you read the pledge there, sign it, see others who have signed it, but also find ways to get involved and get involved.

Gabe Howard: And the title of the book is Pro Truth: A Practical Plan for Bringing Truth Back into Politics.

Tim Ward: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: Tim, thank you for being here, and all of our listeners, thank you for listening. My name is Gabe Howard and I am the author of Mental Illness Is an Asshole: and other observations, which are also available on Amazon. Or you can get a signed copy for less by going to gabehoward.com. Wherever you have downloaded this podcast, please subscribe to it. Please also rate us, give us as many stars as you think deserve, and use your words too. Tell people why they should give us a chance. And remember, you can get free, convenient, affordable, and private advice online anytime, anywhere for a week by simply visiting BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral. I'll see you all next week.

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